 |
| 
 |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Scarlet Pimpernell="Scarlet Pimpernell"Self preservation even applied to some of Hitler’s inner circle. This is different to a book that tries to say that the holocaust never happened. What would you say if the same book was in the possession of Corbyn, not so understanding I bet.'"
I'm no expert on David Irving, but my understanding is that the book on Gove's shelf (The War Path) doesn't contain any element of holocaust denial, even if it does attempt very slightly to reduce some of the commonly held 'raving lunatic psychopath' element from Hitler's character. Most reviews seem to cast it as a decent if unremarkable 2nd part to the biography. And it seems his views on the holocaust only turned idiotic after this was written.
The criticism aimed at Gove is petty. It was largely driven by Owen Jones ffs, which should tell you a lot. Another pathetic example of "It Really Doesn't Matter". Many, many people have Mein Kampf on their shelves, Mao's Little Red Book and feck knows what else. I almost exclusively follow left-wing media online, and only a couple of right-leaning media. It gives me a wide view of how events are perceived.
Had I seen it on Corbyn's bookshelf I'd dismiss it in the same fashion. I dislike Corbyn's views for many reasons, but reading a biography by someone who later became a holocaust denier wouldn't be one of them. It's a bit like watching a Harvey Weinstein movie and enjoying it, or singing along to 'Another Rock n Roll Christmas'. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 12672 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"Nope. I have a book written by a Nazi on my book shelf, a fact I'm sure the mob on here will love.
Albert Speer's 'Inside the Third Reich'. Fascinating read, even if he does bend the truth to minimise his culpability.'"
I’ll take your word for that.
However, I do think Journey to the End of the Night is a brilliant novel, despite the author’s antisemitism. And I still try to enjoy the work of the Smiths despite the lyricist’s conversion from contrarian to nasty bellendery. Y’know, for Johnny Marr’s sake.
The issue is that Irving is known primarily for his holocaust denial. It is good to read or converse with people you disagree with, but there’s a point at which it starts to look a bit icky and suspect. Tbf, Gove looks icky and suspect to me anyway. I take the point about this book possibly having been written before Irving went full blown loon, and it is possibly a difficult book to take to a charity shop. Corbyn would have been metaphorically eviscerated for similar and it’d be a real wtf for Starmer... tbh, I even think better of Johnson than that, despite the non-rejection of Tommy Robinson’s endorsement.
All that aside, what do you make of Gove? | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 12672 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"Many, many people have Mein Kampf on their shelves, Mao's Little Red Book and feck knows what else.'.'"
Do they? I mean, don’t get me wrong I’ve read biographies of Stalin and Mao, but I’ve never had any interest in reading their writings. It’s not like these (e.g. Mein Kampf) are books that you stumble across in Waterstones or that normal friends and family get you for your birthday.
While historians with a interest in the area have legitimate use for it, who else is reading Mein Kampf? Apart from the obvious, but even now I’d like to think there aren’t many, many of them. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Mild Rover="Mild Rover"Do they? I mean, don’t get me wrong I’ve read biographies of Stalin and Mao, but I’ve never had any interest in reading their writings. It’s not like these (e.g. Mein Kampf) are books that you stumble across in Waterstones or that normal friends and family get you for your birthday.
While historians with a interest in the area have legitimate use for it, who else is reading Mein Kampf? Apart from the obvious, but even now I’d like to think there aren’t many, many of them.'"
I've read it, a friend's copy. And yes I've seen it on many bookshelves. With a modern mindset I found it cliched and dull. It was purely out of historical interest - around the same time I read Speer's book, and many more by the likes of Martin Gilbert, Antony Beevor, Max Hastings, James Holland and others. I tend to go through phases - WW1, WW2, Victorian Britain, ancient Britain, ancient Romans, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, etc, etc... There are some truly wonderful historical books out there. Some less so.
The point is that having a book written by someone who later became a bit nutty is only worth commenting on as a matter of interest: "didn't he go a bit batsht loony?". Unless you genuinely think Gove saw it and thought, "great stuff, he's now a holocaust denier, I could get on board with that"? | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 12672 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2007 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"And yes I've seen it on many bookshelves.'"
I’ve seen my share of bookshelves but I don’t ever recall seeing a copy anywhere other than in news reports. And I feel like it is the sort of thing I would recall. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"Nope. I have a book written by a Nazi on my book shelf, a fact I'm sure the mob on here will love.
Albert Speer's 'Inside the Third Reich'. Fascinating read, even if he does bend the truth to minimise his culpability.'"
I knew there was a reason that you voted Brexit  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"I knew there was a reason that you voted Brexit
'"
RLFans wouldn't be half as much fun if I hadn't. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"RLFans wouldn't be half as much fun if I hadn't.
'"
Yeah, it seems like the "cliff edge" prediction was right too ?
You'll be telling us that, it's got nothing to do with Brexit and finding something or someone else to blame, just as I said you would | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4651 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Anyone been looking back at the Prof. John Ashton timeline of events?
He basically said exactly what would happen on Question Time back in early March, and was of course ridiculed, especially when he was found to have Labour connections.
Many right wing social media accounts jumped straight on him. One described him as a 'loony hardcore Corbynista lefty', so of course, the smears gained traction. There was the usual anti-semitic smear, various pastings in the tabloids, and calls not to politicise the situation. They also got him on the old 'labour activist' smear when he appeared on Panorama.
Anyway, turns out he was bang on.
It's an interesting rabbit hole to disappear down. Start with Question Time on March 12, then look at social media and news articles from after the show. This article from a month later gives a decent roundup of what happened, there's a clip from his appearance on QT, too.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/p ... ssion=true
Here are some tweets from the show on March 12. Have a look at some of the replies. It's 'the public have had enough of experts' in a nutshell. Also check out Fiona Bruce's face of disdain when he mentions care homes in the second tweet's video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 9689631745
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 8089369601 |
|
Anyone been looking back at the Prof. John Ashton timeline of events?
He basically said exactly what would happen on Question Time back in early March, and was of course ridiculed, especially when he was found to have Labour connections.
Many right wing social media accounts jumped straight on him. One described him as a 'loony hardcore Corbynista lefty', so of course, the smears gained traction. There was the usual anti-semitic smear, various pastings in the tabloids, and calls not to politicise the situation. They also got him on the old 'labour activist' smear when he appeared on Panorama.
Anyway, turns out he was bang on.
It's an interesting rabbit hole to disappear down. Start with Question Time on March 12, then look at social media and news articles from after the show. This article from a month later gives a decent roundup of what happened, there's a clip from his appearance on QT, too.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/p ... ssion=true
Here are some tweets from the show on March 12. Have a look at some of the replies. It's 'the public have had enough of experts' in a nutshell. Also check out Fiona Bruce's face of disdain when he mentions care homes in the second tweet's video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 9689631745
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 8089369601 | |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote King Street Cat="King Street Cat"Anyone been looking back at the Prof. John Ashton timeline of events?
He basically said exactly what would happen on Question Time back in early March, and was of course ridiculed, especially when he was found to have Labour connections.
Many right wing social media accounts jumped straight on him. One described him as a 'loony hardcore Corbynista lefty', so of course, the smears gained traction. There was the usual anti-semitic smear, various pastings in the tabloids, and calls not to politicise the situation. They also got him on the old 'labour activist' smear when he appeared on Panorama.
Anyway, turns out he was bang on.
It's an interesting rabbit hole to disappear down. Start with Question Time on March 12, then look at social media and news articles from after the show. This article from a month later gives a decent roundup of what happened, there's a clip from his appearance on QT, too.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/p ... ssion=true
Here are some tweets from the show on March 12. Have a look at some of the replies. It's 'the public have had enough of experts' in a nutshell. Also check out Fiona Bruce's face of disdain when he mentions care homes in the second tweet's video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 9689631745
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 8089369601'"
As requested.
I remember his appearance and he was absolutely correct. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was well aware of the effect of CV19 around the world from the get-go as I was dealing with the effects of travel/border restrictions every day and watching as country by country the situation deepened.
It's worth recalling that even in early March, many eminent scientists still viewed this as another SARS/MERS - nasty but possible to contain and eliminate fairly successfully. We easily forget this is a new virus. Antigen and antibody tests barely existed, certainly not in large number, and those that did were often not accurate enough. The nature of the virus was largely unknown. We didn't know exactly what it did or exactly how infectious it was - something underestimated globally due to the fact people can be shedding whilst asymptomatic, unlike SARS/MERS. There's still a lot about it we don't know.
The West hadn't experienced SARS/MERS, unlike many countries in Asia, who therefore had responses and facilities in place for precisely such an event. Leaping into action wasn't as simple for us. That said, I've said before we were too late locking down and we could have done more.
I have no particular love for Fiona Bruce but you're seeing something that's not there. She simply looks at her notes and the audience and gives a little sigh. It's certainly not aimed at the mention of care homes. |
|
Quote King Street Cat="King Street Cat"Anyone been looking back at the Prof. John Ashton timeline of events?
He basically said exactly what would happen on Question Time back in early March, and was of course ridiculed, especially when he was found to have Labour connections.
Many right wing social media accounts jumped straight on him. One described him as a 'loony hardcore Corbynista lefty', so of course, the smears gained traction. There was the usual anti-semitic smear, various pastings in the tabloids, and calls not to politicise the situation. They also got him on the old 'labour activist' smear when he appeared on Panorama.
Anyway, turns out he was bang on.
It's an interesting rabbit hole to disappear down. Start with Question Time on March 12, then look at social media and news articles from after the show. This article from a month later gives a decent roundup of what happened, there's a clip from his appearance on QT, too.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/p ... ssion=true
Here are some tweets from the show on March 12. Have a look at some of the replies. It's 'the public have had enough of experts' in a nutshell. Also check out Fiona Bruce's face of disdain when he mentions care homes in the second tweet's video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 9689631745
https://mobile.twitter.com/bbcquestiont ... 8089369601'"
As requested.
I remember his appearance and he was absolutely correct. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was well aware of the effect of CV19 around the world from the get-go as I was dealing with the effects of travel/border restrictions every day and watching as country by country the situation deepened.
It's worth recalling that even in early March, many eminent scientists still viewed this as another SARS/MERS - nasty but possible to contain and eliminate fairly successfully. We easily forget this is a new virus. Antigen and antibody tests barely existed, certainly not in large number, and those that did were often not accurate enough. The nature of the virus was largely unknown. We didn't know exactly what it did or exactly how infectious it was - something underestimated globally due to the fact people can be shedding whilst asymptomatic, unlike SARS/MERS. There's still a lot about it we don't know.
The West hadn't experienced SARS/MERS, unlike many countries in Asia, who therefore had responses and facilities in place for precisely such an event. Leaping into action wasn't as simple for us. That said, I've said before we were too late locking down and we could have done more.
I have no particular love for Fiona Bruce but you're seeing something that's not there. She simply looks at her notes and the audience and gives a little sigh. It's certainly not aimed at the mention of care homes. | |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4651 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"I have no particular love for Fiona Bruce but you're seeing something that's not there. She simply looks at her notes and the audience and gives a little sigh. It's certainly not aimed at the mention of care homes.'"
I don't think she's showing any targetted disdain towards care homes. Remember this is nearly 2 weeks before lockdown. She just looks like she's thinking, "here we go again! He's banging on about care homes now". I just find that particular clip very prescient now we know the extent to which it has ripped through care homes. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Cronus="Cronus"As requested.
I remember his appearance and he was absolutely correct. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. I was well aware of the effect of CV19 around the world from the get-go as I was dealing with the effects of travel/border restrictions every day and watching as country by country the situation deepened.
'"
You could always do a cummings and predict it coming, by doctoring your posts, when it was already upon us. | | | |
| |
All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.
Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.
RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.
Copyright 1999 - 2025 RLFANS.COM
You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.
Please Support RLFANS.COM
|
|
