And it was Brett Kimmorley at 7 (a Newcastle junior who had to go elsewhere because Joey Johns was in front of him!) who played alongside Lockyer when the destroyed Great Britain in the last two Ashes series.

The forwards haven't managed to get the bestter of their opposites no matter how often people try and 'big up' our pack and tell ourselves our pack is better than there's on paper it doesn't mean it will translate on to the field. The way the English pack has been almost mythologised over the last few years is very similar to how the English soccer team (the golden generation) was always held in the same regard as the best soccer teams in the world despite never managing to match them, especially when it really mattered.

I meant those two in the same side (not necessarily in the halves), sorry wasn't clear

Quote christopher="christopher"I meant those two in the same side (not necessarily in the halves), sorry wasn't clear'" No worries Chris For those that don't remember 2004. youtu.be/wXGkdD9dIY4 It was 38-0 first half I think from memory it ended up 44-4, it was a sad turn around from the build up where GB were confident of a win.

Quote christopher="christopher"I meant those two in the same side (not necessarily in the halves), sorry wasn't clear'" No worries Chris For those that don't remember 2004. youtu.be/wXGkdD9dIY4 It was 38-0 first half I think from memory it ended up 44-4, it was a sad turn around from the build up where GB were confident of a win.

Quote Buggo="Buggo"No worries Chris For those that don't remember 2004. youtu.be/wXGkdD9dIY4 It was 38-0 first half I think from memory it ended up 44-4, it was a sad turn around from the build up where GB were confident of a win.'" I was there that night, mixed feelings I was gutted we got hammered but was glad I witnessed what I still think is the best half of rugby I've ever seen from a team.

Quote Buggo="Buggo"No worries Chris For those that don't remember 2004. youtu.be/wXGkdD9dIY4 It was 38-0 first half I think from memory it ended up 44-4, it was a sad turn around from the build up where GB were confident of a win.'" I was there that night, mixed feelings I was gutted we got hammered but was glad I witnessed what I still think is the best half of rugby I've ever seen from a team.

They probably didn't play in the same side together all that much either.



When they did play those few games in te halves together, they didn't click. Both were dominant playmakers, it just didn't work like it promised on paper. Johns once again got injured before they had time to work it out in the halves. The one game that year they did blitz it was when I think it was Hunt went off injured and Lockyer went to fullback for the rest of the game and it was just beautiful. Lockyer suddenly looked like the best fullback in the game again after not playing there for 2 years and Johns dominated from the halves. Pretty sure they ended up putting on 50 points that night.



That would be the 2004 Tri-Nations Final you're talking about. He was incredible. I haven't seen anyone or any team play like Lockyer and the Kangaroos did in that first half, before or since. There wasn't an aspect of Lockyer's play that wasn't literally perfect. I remember a pin point 30m pass to Andrew Ryan at pace to create an overlap directly leading to a try. Pin point 40m bomb landing directly on the line for Willie Tonga try. Handling the ball 4 times in a magnificent lead up to the try of the tournament, including switching play to assisst Minichiello over for his second. Supporting a Hindmarsh offload and running 70m for a try of his own. Finding the grass with his kicks all night.

Goal kicking 6 from 6. Just way, way too good.



EDIT: Ok, didn't need to write any of that with the video posted. Just watched it and, oh man, that pass to Ryan is just ridiculous. How can you pull it off to that standard? And that second try, a thing if rugby league beauty. Webcke offloading to Buderus while falling with two players hanging off him and Buderus passing over his shoulder without looking, all precise and at 100km/h.

I posted that 2004 first half link above.

I remember watching that game and everything just worked out, I was surprised that Tonga and Hindmarsh were playing Test footy, I must be getting old.



As you say balancing the on field Generals and kickers can be an issue for Australia.

Many Australian Test teams have six or more Club Captains that call the shots for their respective Clubs but have to defer to designated playmakers in a Test Squad.

The Best Test Teams have had an organising Halfback General with a smart fast running Stand Off that could run himself or set up the play if needs be.

England have not had these type of players in recent memory and its why England do not win against Australia IMO.

Yeah I knew they only played a handful of games at most together in the halves but I'd say even before that as a partnership, Barrett/Johns and definitely Fitler/Johns were better than Thurston/Cronk.



I was also at that '04 game (can't believe it's 9 years ago now) and think the same. I doubt I'll ever see a singular performance as good as what Lockyer put on that day again. I'm happy to say I was there to witnes it, even though it wasn't for the team I wanted to win.

Its all in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Johns was one of the best ever.

Fittler was right up there.

Barrett was a good Club player and a solid SOO performer but in many fans opinions had an inside lane in selection for the Test team similar to Kurt Gidley nowadays.



Thurston is considered in Australia as one of the best players in the NRL for many years and is often rated in the top three players in the game.

Cronk has had to wait in the wings for some time but is an accomplished player and right up there but had to wait for a chance in the Kangaroos halves. (IMO Lockyer played a year or two past his best where he was no longer a threat running the ball past 15 yards and consequently limited his play that opposing Coaches nullified a lot of his threat)

I've never understood why JT is so underrated in this country. He's up there with the best I've seen in my life time.

His prime years have been with the Cowboys and they are always talked about as contenders without ever really having the ability to live up to it, Thurston's name is a big part of that expectation.



If he had played for the Storm, Manly or perhaps stayed at Canterbury he would have had a better balance of players around him so that he could shine rather than be expected to do it all himself.

A Half can only do so much and if his backs can not complete what he sets up it nullifies some of the skills he brings to a game.

The Cowboys have very good backs: Matt Bowen, Brent Tate, Kane Linnett and a couple of good wingers.