We've had Dodds and Harrison out all season and boy has it shown, most weeks we've looked soft in the front row. Westwood Currie and Grix, signed Cox but nowhere to be seen back end of the season. Bailey's played about three hours of rugby all season.



We've lacked size since day one and we paid for it last night, nowhere near powerful enough!

For all those people clamouring to replace Smith, and I'd probably agree it's time to consider a change, at least come up with some names. There is only one name in SL currently who could [ipotentially[/i improve us and that is Darryl Powell. However, yes, Cas play some nice stuff but on the one occasion they reached a final they ............ bottled it. At least TS can point to a trophy cabinet that hasn't been gathering dust for a decade.



As for a clear out of players, again, if people want to get rid of Sandow (not quite sure why because last night even on one leg he straightened our attack and provided more menace than we had all game) then who would you replace him with? I'd hope we'd have learned a lesson from the Briers fiasco because Patton IS NOT ready to be a regular starter, and at a time when people are bemoaning our lack of quality and style getting shut of our most entertaining, innovative player seems a little backward.



If you want to shake up the playing staff, here's a few -



Bailey - waste of space. If people think Cox is lazy, take a long hard look here. One contribution last night, giving away a penalty. Doesn't even wind the opposition up any more.

Dodds - crocked. If we are prepared to start next season with another forward with suspect health then we deserve nothing.

Atkins - has enjoyed a career Indian Summer, but last night was the Ryan of old again.

Evans - I'm a fan (or as near as it seems he's likely to get) but we need to inject some growl into the backline and he isn't it

Penny - too many mistakes, still not good enough, and never going to be

Russell - not a winger, not strong enough at FB and despite plenty of strengths we can't keep shoehorning players in



Elsewhere, Westerman needs a big off-season and a bigger 2017. At the moment he's a fancy Paul Noone and he was a major flaw in our performance last night. Sam Wilde is two years off the first team. George King needs to find some grit - you're a prop not a lollipop lady, son.



And finally, please, [iplease[/i, bring back Ben Harrison. Tough as they come, a workhorse and an [iactual[/i ball-playing forward of talent and not a forward who fancies himself as a ball-playing forward (hello Ashton, hi Joe).

I think it is harsh to say we need to get rid of Russell, he is the best ball runner in our team, nobody else gets consistently quick ptb like him, that is so important in modern game.



I agree with the rest, but Gidley needs to go as well. He is another year older, and he shown in the final that he doesn't have the passing or kicking game close to the opposition line to unlock good defences, he was comfortably outplayed by Williams. He also missed the tackle for their try.



He isn't much better than Patton but takes up a huge chunk of our salary cap... we could get a real quality centre/forward if he wasn't here.



I wouldn't mind keeping Sandow because he does offer that creative and kicking game we sorely miss at times, but whether he is consistent enough to justify being our marquee signing I don't know.

It is harsh on Russell, I admit, and I do admire his qualities. The problem is, he is clearly an out-and-out FB. If we play him on the wing we are shoehorning him into the team, and that is where a lot of our problems lie. If we keep Russell, and I'm sure we will, then he needs to play FB, and I'm not sure he is good enough for that. That means moving Ratchford around, which in turn means moving Gidley.



As for Sandow and Gidley, they were the competition's best half-back combination in the first part of the season by a mile. Sandow's injury disrupted them both and Gidley himself was never really 100% fit for the last few months but they'd still be my first choice next year.



Our priorities lie elsewhere. A flyer on the wing, a centre and another prop. Yes, we've come up short (just) in the big games again so some need to be moved on but we have the core.

Just an observation and by no means a criticism , but Wire seem to have quite a few players who are jack of all trades , can anyone actually say where the likes of Ratchford and Russell actually play ? It seems from the outside that these guys have never actually nailed a starting position and made it theirs.



Its not a bad squad but does seem somewhat unbalanced ,. Also don't underestimate the effect of losing Westwood and Currie had on your seasons end ,. Massive losses .

But we have a salary cap, it's ok saying we need a winger, centre and prop but to bring in quality we have to make changes to the existing squad.



That means looking at the highest earners at the club and asking whether they bring enough to the field to justify it. I don't think the difference between Patton and Gidley on the pitch justifies the 200k difference in their salary.



Pair any other half decent half with a fully firing Sandow and they're the best partnership in super league, their isn't much competition.



Put it this way, i would have rather have a starting 13 next season including Patton, Sandow and Watkins for example... than a 13 including Gidley, Sandow and Rhys Evans because we have no space to manoeuvre, and therefore have a centre whose on 25k a year.

Ten years ago maybe he could have been an out and out fullback. However, nowadays you can't really be a top fullback if you can't pass - it's too easy for the defence to shoot in on you out the back of a second man play. As a Saints fan I'd much rather Russell played fullback than Ratchford (and I think Ratchford has got some fairly large deficiencies), because Russell may have more attacking involvement playing fullback but the rest of your backline will have less.

I cannot disagree with this. Gidley simply does not offer the value for money.



If we are short of cap space then we need to lose the likes of Bailey, Cox, Penny, R Evans, Dodds (too much risk) and either get a quality strike centre, or move Ratchford to centre and get a quality full back such as Hardaker. Gidley can spell Clarke. Sandow and Patton in the halves.

I might be wrong here but our win ratio with Russell at FB is high? I think we are at our best with him in that position.

On reflection I think our season has been pretty good

We have fallen short on two from three occasions but look at it this way

Won the LLS

Runners up CCF

Runners up GF

Best defence

Best attack

And with those stats we should have the treble but we Dont

Let's move on, praise the whole club and support I think next season will be a good one and we've made the WCC in the process

Come on everyone we're all hurting but let's get some positive thinking for next year

I disagree. For the hight this club has set itself with investment in players, facilities and staff, that represents a failure.

Exclude LLS as a trophy, is not, it's a sub reward of the GF that carries no merit.

In football you would see a manager sacked at the elite level for a season like ours.

Me too