I don't have Sky Sports or watch it, so can't comment on that, but I think that's spot on about other clubs. We won't be seen as a genuine big club until we have that title. I'll be honest and admit that I won't personally see us as a genuine big club without it either.



As for the first part of your post, well that's a matter of opinion. I have my own views on the current play off system and agree it's far from perfect, but the rules are the rules and everyone knows them. Whatever needs to be done to be crowned Champions is what I want us to do, and I certainly won't ever see that title as devalued. Leeds pulled off two unbelieveable feats in the last two play off campaigns and earned it.

All finishing 5th meant for Leeds was that they couldn't afford to lose any matches in the play-offs. So they didn't. Twice.

This is almost a whole new thread in itself, but:



Top five most painful Wire moments, ever, in order:



1) Leeds elimination semi-final 2011 (head and shoulders above any other defeat, ever). Just like Fatbelly and Yed, I couldn’t talk about it or watch it back, but eventually did just three days before the start of the 2012 season, and I needed beer in order to do it. Instant delete and never mention it again. Today’s discussion is slightly cathartic and the closest I will ever get to group therapy.



2) Grand Final 2012. For obvious and aforementioned reasons.



3) Semi-final v Wigan2004. Third semi-final defeat in four years was almost too much to bear.



4) Wembley 1990. As a 12-year-old, after all the build-up, I just couldn’t compute that we hadn’t won. I was such a little mard about it that I even refused to watch the team come back on the bus, even though it passed within 30 yards of my house.



5) Getting absolutely pummelled at home by Wigan in August 2002 and thinking, ‘We are actually going to be relegated this season. It is really going to happen”.



A 2013 Challenge Cup Final defeat to Wigan would not come close to making this list.



A 2013 Grand Final defeat to anyone would shoot straight in at no.1 and possibly result in my abandoned car being found at a lonely beauty spot.

1) Leeds play off 2011

2) Grand Final 2012

3) Huddersfield play off 2010

4) Hull FC play off 2005

5=) Every trip I ever made to Knowsley Road (too many to remember)







^This.

If we were to lose in the CC Final I would be miffed but by the time we were passing the RAC HQ on the M6 I would be back to normal





If we were to lose in the G/F it would still only make my number 2 of worst defeats with the 2011 defeat to Leeds being still at the top.



About 2 months after the Leeds defeat I was talking to someone who worked for the club and they said that they actually cried when they got home that night.



I think we were all so certain of a G/F appearance not because of arrogance, but because of the honestly held belief we had in our team. We were by far & away in the very best team in SL & played some fantastic RL. That really was our year.

2010 against huddersfield was pretty bad as well.



For some stupid reason i'd agreed to go on a date that night, for some equally stupid reason i'd also decided to put some sort of bieber-ish swooping quiff in my hair at the time, which lead to much taking by the bro's at the game.



that second half was excruciating, as there was a couple of VR decisions, that took forever and the second half was never going to end. as it closer to the end, i started movnig towards the steps, then down the steps, then onto the apron, then mathers went or bust and we all know how that ends.



Needless to say, it wasn't the best first impression i've ever made, turned up late, scowled for most of the evening, and she took the out of my hair.

Losing any play off game (aside from the week one farce) this year will be the hardest of the lot to take for me, whether it be an eliminator or the final itself.



I think a number of this team are genuinely in last chance saloon - obviously those that are definitely leaving, but also a couple of key others who are staying but whose powers will be waning with age - and if it doesn't happen it might be years before it does. If at all.



This year feels like now or never. That's why all my eggs would personally be in the Super League basket if I was picking the team for forthcoming league and cup games.

Grand final defeat wasn't that bad because I had a massive hangover.

1989 CC semi-final at Maine Road was the worst for me. Still rankles.

Well this (barring a final, maybe a playoff) will probably be my last live game of the season, so hopefully it's a good one.

I was in a pub in Oxford, full of Yawnion players, with 4 tellies showing other sport and my one telly in the corner showing the League. I scared two thirds of the pub away with my *colourful* language. The landlord gave me a free pint in sympathy though when we lost.

You're right about Hodgson, the guy seems to take hammer every tackle, I'm the first to comment how softer the game seems to be going but I seriously doubt B.Hodgson agrees, it seems every player puts that extra effort in to smash him yet up he gets, time after time!



Should be a decent game on Sunday, I didn't expect HKR to beat Catalans away or Saints away and don't expect anything here, but they have surprised me recently, with much to do with the blistering starts Rovers have had on their opp. With Wire's famed fast starts, this is going to be crucial to the eventual outcome.