The second punch makes it impossible to defend him. If he'd just punched him the once I'd have sat here today and said 'fair enough' because Hohiha can't do what he does without expecting to get a clip. That second one though is ridiculous and puts the spotlight all on him when it shouldn't be.

Totally agree, I just don't go along with Hohaia being the innocent victim.

Not often we agree on here mate but you're spot on. Hohaia's reaction to the initial challenge from Flower was stupid and deserved a smack. The 2nd one was shocking.

I have an issue with the second punch when he was down, totally unacceptable

Firstly I am not a Wigan hater - what your team have done over the last 5 years + should be a blue print for the majority of clubs in Super League. Do I like some of the tactics Wane employs - no. Is there an element of jealousy from me as a rugby supporter toward Wigan - absolutely.



To the incident on Saturday evening.



Ignoring all of the other elements leading up to the event i.e. Hohaia elbow, Flower initial retaliation - the fact is Flower is culpable for an act I can only describe as deplorable. I feel sorry for all genuine Wigan and Rugby fans that paid good money to attend the game. Flower brought both Wigan and the the RFL into disrepute, for that reason alone Wigan should at the very least suspend the player themselves (pretty sure I would lose my job in a comparable incident). Wane's immediate response to support the player was ill advised in my opinion and has not helped his image one iota. No way should he get a life ban (laughable to even suggest), he made a mistake but as his employer Wigan have a responsibility along side the governing bodies disciplinary panel.



Unfortunately for Flower the book needs to be thrown at him in an attempt to repair the damage he has done to the image of the game. Mistake or not this was the show piece event of the British game - frankly anything less than a six month ban and dismissal by his club - he will have got off lightly.

Unfortunately, therein lies the entire problem with the disciplinary in this country - They tend to take that same, skewed view.



"Mistake or not, this was the show piece of the British game............"



So fecking what ????



What you appear to be saying is that if he had done that in a non-televised match, he should receive only a standard punishment, but simply because of the match it took place in, he should be both sacked and banned for at least 6 months ???



Utter garbage.



Sadly, the RFL have been seen to take such things in to account before. ("It's a big occasion, so we'll apply a ban in months, rather than matches"icon_wink.gif.



Or, the complete opposite - "It was REALLY bad, but we need him to play for England". (Yes Mr Westwood, I'm looking at you).



For me, he should receive 1-2 matches for the first punch, plus 4-8 for the second. (Based on the Sonny Nickle ban a few years back - 9 matches for broken jaw)



Hohaia should also receive 1-2 for the elbow.



That's still a substantial (2-3 month) ban, but is more in line with the guidelines set out for striking.



IF he gets more FOR THE ACT, then that's fine, but anyone calling for him to be sacked or banned, simply because it was a big occasion needs to give their head a wobble.

I am saying he brought the game and your club into disrepute - you are missing my fundamental point (maybe I shouldn't have referred to it being the show-piece event).



Had a camera not being there when Carney did the 'unmentionable act' he would still be playing in the NRL. Instead it went viral, the same way the incident did on Saturday, televised game or not, cameras are at every game. The image of Rugby League has been tarnished massively due to the actions of Ben Flower.



Whether Hohaia is banned is irrelevant to what I posted - I have seen less get a ban this season and I have also seen worse go unpunished.

he knocked on you bell end and how can they see from behind the play.

What kind of ban did Morley get for his red in the first minute of the test match that time?

what about if he had a knife or gun? What about if he had a samurai sword and cut him.



Things that didn't happen aren't much use to a real life situation. Whataboutery is the last refuge of the lost argument.



Ben Flower hit a man who was unconscious. Everything else was part and parcel of the game. Happens all the time. Sometimes halves barge in to props. Sometimes props get mad and punch halves.



nobody ever hits unconscious people because it is a dangerous, cowardly dog act of the highest order.



Regardless of the your reasons for getting angry, regardless of their merits, when your anger manifests itself in punching a fellow pro who is unconscious YOU screwed up. No justification, no mitigation.

I understand what you are saying regarding punishments should not be different dependant on it being a showpiece event.

But this thing is in danger of being made into a witch hunt of Wane and the Wigan club as well as Flower when the RFL read the article in todays Daily Express.

It has a column on the back page as well as a double page spread inside, one page deals with the match and the other really tears into Wane regarding his get out and give it to them pre match talks in which his NZ video is given as proof.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that he was unconscious? On the video it seems as though his right hand is up in apparent self defence.



Not to say it wasn't fully deserving of a red card and all, it just doesn't look as though he's unconscious to me, and he was moving about after Flower stepped over him.