if you think that Leeds were not trying to win last night, you were watching a different game to me and you need your head examined.



They just played badly, too many players went AWOL, that said, they almost pulled it off.

Oh I agree that it wouldn't go down well. That's not the point I am making.



What I cannot get my head around is the current fashion for "brutal pre-seasons" or a focus on hitting the ground running in the early games.



If we do that, then continue all season- great.



But last year we looked shot at the end, this year we are already looking tired.



Given the current structure of SL I cannot accept that the best strategy is "go out on day 1, and maintain that intensity up into the final day".



It doesn't happen in any other sport, I can't see how it should/would in RL.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. However the uncomfortable facts are that Leeds gave us a good run for our money in last years CC final, are in the CC final this year having knocked us out and are the current SL champions. If questions are to be asked, perhaps we should start down at the DW? This team has a bit to learn about pressure games. We don't seem to win very often at home with more than 18,000 fans in the ground. Bratfut being the latest example.

Watching Leeds this year reminds me of us under Noble and the way we played, although they seem capable of winning the big games rather than us at the time.



I work with a few Leeds fans and despite the success they have had most do not enjoy the performances for the most part of the season, and they find it immensely frustrating to say the least.



I watch rugby because I enjoy it and it is and trophies are the cherry on top and are great when they come our way but the main part of it for me is the week in week out performance on the field.



Teams can peak 3 maybe 4 times in a year and I would say that we should and will be aiming to peak physically at the start of the year, for the back end of the cup campaign and the play-offs.



The idea that we can only peak once is incorrect.



We lost the Leeds semi because they wanted it more and some of our players came up with plays that you would never see them make again, but credit to Leeds they took advantage and turned us over. I do not think if we had played like we had for 85% of the season Leeds would have turned us over, but they did and that is the excitement of the cup, anything can happen on the day.



I agree with Rogues in relation to their ability to challenge, I think they lack the quality and the coaching but they do have a nack of drawing teams in and if teams are stupid enough to get sucked in by them, they will cause them problems.



Wire are a team that do seem to get sucked in and intimidated and for that reason I would not be shocked though to see a Leeds win even if they are the underdogs.

Then you should be delighted with the way Wigan are playing this season.



I have to say I fundamentally disagree with you. Personally I believe that the whole point of entering a competition is to win it.



"They don't draw pictures on scorecards".

Agree, and I think mental fatigue is also an issue. It is very difficult to maintain top performances from the start right through to the end of the season. Even the great Wigan sides of the late 80s and early 90s bombed in games from time to time. It is a big ask psychologically to be excellent 100% of the time and if things start to go wrong in a game, then the team can suddenly feel under pressure and may not respond well to that pressure, as we saw in the Leeds game.

Last night was no more a training game than the CC Semi where we deservedly (and thanks to our players winning it, not yours losing it and not the referee) knocked your lot out. We lost to Wakefield not because the players or coaching staff don't care, but because Wakefield played a blinder and we didn't play well enough. We lost because we were missing a halfback, a centre and our best second rower and the guys that came in (Stevie Ward excepted) didn't do their jobs well enough, neither did some of the more regular starters. We also got a bit unlucky with some of the calls - apparently Wakefield never knock on, never strip a ball and never pass forward - but that wasn't why we lost. We just weren't good enough on the day.



But are Leeds good enough on most days? Yes. The fact that only two matches of note in the last three seasons haven't involved the Rhino's kind of suggests that you should be looking a bit closer to home as to why you're failing - it's certainly not because Leeds don't try against Wakefield.



This Leeds squad has won SL from 1st, 2nd and 5th, won it playing the best rugby in the competition, and when playing a close second to an electric Saints side. They've won it with a record breaking attack and won it with the meanest defence, and they've won it having been the most consistent side over a season as well as being relatively inconsistent - but you lot talk about this side like they're a bunch of grunters who are fortunate to even earn a living. It all sounds a bit like sour grapes to be honest.

So Leeds, with one Challenge cup win in 30+ years, are the model we should be aspiring to? No thanks.

9 losses in 22 games would suggest otherwise.

have a day off

Wire are a team that do seem to get sucked in and intimidated

I don't think anyone is saying its easy to win it from 5th. But its easier now than in a top 6 playoff. If all results went to the highest placed team then Leeds would have to beat



Catalan away

Saints away

Wire away

Wigan at OT to be champions.



4 top notch teams to win it. Under a top 8 you only play 3 top notch teams with the first of those teams coming off a loss and likely to have been in a bruiser.