I don't think anyone doesn't believe him. Why wouldn't we?



But I thought part of the culture we were suppose to be implementing into the squad was a style of play throughout the age groups. So that when the young lads step up, they do so into a system in which they are comfortable.



I fully understand the injuries this year played their part. Again, I do not know anyone who is suggesting otherwise. It seems to me like you are justifying why we had (up to that point) had an 'awful awful' season. In doing so you must concede that very people you are trying to prove wrong, you are in fact supporting their argument.



There have been many studies into this, and owners will always favour win maximisation over utility (enjoyment) maximisation, on the assumption that more wins leads to more profit due to more fans. I would say the evidence of Wigan over the previous 5 or 6 years does not necessarily back this up. We may well be making more money in the short term through winning (I haven't investigated this whatsoever) but the fan numbers are declining substantially. I believe our fans value both winning and utility fairly equally, thus a poor product on the field, no matter how successful will not lead to more fans.



For someone like Man Utd I would say they are definitely in the category of wins over utility. The fans who attend games may moan at the 1-0 wins, but the worldwide support base doesn't care too much about performance, just the prestige of winning.



As a fan I think you certainly have the right to make a judgment of how much enjoyment you get out of the money you invest into the club. And someone who get paid by that money does not really have the right to tell you if your judgment is right or wrong. For one person this is a profession, or the other this is a hobby for which they pay a fair price!

The only way our difference of opinion could be resolved is if we sit down with a pot of tea and biscuits and go through the season, I'll explain what I class as clueless rugby and you can try to explain the reasons for it. I'm talking about failing at the basics, not failing at open expansive rugby, I'm talking basic rugby league, 101 stuff.

Do you guys post on there?



Yesterday was absolutely disgraceful with some of the most disgusting personal comments I think I've seen in the main to other posters.

I know the thread that most of it was on seems to have been removed ???

No, I don't necessarily believe that good pre-season = good season. If you go on the Leeds forum they will have you believe that they would have won the treble again if their training pitch hadn't been flooded.



If you want an idea why we were so poor for most of the season in attack then listen to Waney's post match comments. He doesn't go into great detail but it seems there's a lot more to it than we realise.

What's the other forum people are referring to? WWfans?

Presumably. I do read it and post from time to time, but the tedious personal spats between posters (and between posters and mods) have made it a bit of a trial lately.

I do now very rarely. It's closing down soon isn't it? I think the way it is at the moment makes that not a bad option which is a real shame to say.



There seems to be some real issues amougst people on there that I can only presume stem from things that have happened away from the boards. I can count on one hand the amount of crossed words I've had with people on here in over a decade but I never take anything personal.





It is the fans site by the way purple.

Gave up on it several years ago, to be honest.



It's basically an ego show rather than a proper forum, with a small group of individuals simply unable to tolerate any views different to their own and constantly feigning inside info about the workings of the club. I suspect that it's also an ego thing with those who have big issues with IL and SW (they've demanded both be removed many times in recent years - how do you remove the club's owner, just out of interest?), as they didn't like them orginally and now just can't bear to admit that both men have done a great deal for Wigan RL.



A horrible place, to be honest, which will soon be history ... which might just mean, unfortunately, that some of its gobbier members then try to migrate over here.

Well as you know I post on both and a major difference between the two boards is the moderation is (deliberately) virtually non-existent over there and as a result things can get rather heated. They usually calm down in the end without people being banned.



Earlier in the year this place was like a morgue in comparison and several posters from here started cropping up on there and I don't think that was a coincidence.



As to it going away, that may not now be the case so you may be spared any invasion.

'Heated' being a euphemism for venomous, petty, pompous, narcissistic ... etc.



I don't include you in that, by the way. But there's a certain member over there who I'm starting to suspect is no real friend to Wigan RL, at least you don't get that he is from his online persona. He's tried to become a member of this site several times under different identities, almost always causing immediate acrimony and very quickly getting sussed and banned.



So if what you say is true, and all the cuckoos are staying that particular nest, then I'm more than happy.

Yeah, I used to be a mod on there, as you may remember, but I gave up on it several years ago.

Me three, good while ago now. I can't remember the last time I even logged on there.