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| Quote FCBen="FCBen"How much do KC charge for use of their lines? Is it in line with what BT charge, because if it is I can't see why others wouldn't be offering services here.'"
Yes. Exactly the same in fact, its regulated. They were investigated a few years ago by Ofcom. Hull is a small, low income market.
Quote FCBen
I'm sure you are very happy with KC if you are getting fiber. I would be too. But I can't get fiber. I won't be getting it next week. Or next month. Probably not for several years. We are in a ridiculous situation where the largest population centre has the slowest speeds while the outlying areas are on fiber. We are trying to sell ourselves as a futuristic city and the capitol of renewable energy, yet our communications system is stuck in the dark ages. Again, netindex show Hull as 826 out of 954 for home broadband, and 316 of 321 for mobile broadband [urlhttp://explorer.netindex.com/maps[/url Try putting Beverley or Brough into the search and then see if you are happy with broadband in Hull. Bristol you say? Averaging 35.43 Mbps, 235 of 954. Much better than hull.
Sorry, but KC's prices are not a little higher than Virgin, they're nowhere near. The prices I quoted earlier for Virgin (£25.99 for first 12 months and £31.49 after) include line rental. And that's for fiber speeds and unlimited downloads. KC are asking £32 for slow cable broadband with a 35GB limit, and it keeps going up in price! Lightstream is better value, but still no comparison to Virgin.
KC may not technically hold a monopoly, but as someone trying hard to find an alternative, it sure feels like one. Whisper don't cover my area and EE's 4G is shocking. My ONLY alternative is Pure, and they can't install till next year
 '"
I agree. I fully support any efforts to increase competition in the area. However your shouting at the wrong people, it's not KC's fault. Indeed, the only thing that is surprising is that KC's prices are so low in what is a low competition market, fair play to them for that. Incidentally, there are large parts of the country, indeed, by far the majority that do not enjoy fibre speeds including large parts of cities like Bristol, even London. And the rural situation is even worst, the fastest speed I could get at an accommodation I rented outside of Manchester (Knutsford) maxed out at about 0.7mb, and that was on BT. Indeed, I've checked and where i use to live still only has ADSL as an option, and the average connection speed on that is lower than I get in Hessle on KC. Frankly its luck of the draw, and in an age that relies on connectivity, it needs to be addressed as a national issue and I understand and sympathise with your frustration.
Sorry if I got the Virgin prices wrong, I was looking at 100mb. It is indeed £31.49 per month (£15.50 subscription, plus £15.99 line rental). The comparable KC deal which includes line rental, and the same inclusive calls (indeed KC is better as it includes evening calls and Virgin doesn't), with 50mb connection is £36.99 per month. So £5.49 per month difference, which I suppose we can put down to the cost of no competition and the evening calls. | | |
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| So £11 p/m cheaper for the first year, and after that you could switch provider (  ). You don't mention what KC's download limit is either at that price. Virgin is unlimited (although I suspect there may be a fair usage policy attached to that) while KC is limited to 70GB. That might seem a lot to those of us on cable, but at 50Mbps you [ucould[/u use that up in just over 3 hours.
But neither are available to me, so I instead have to look at the value of what is available. At £32 a month for slow cable and a 35GB limit (still 50p p/m more expensive than Virgin incidentally), I was not getting good value. There is an article in the mail today stating that an equivalent service can be had for £19 - £20 p/m.
It is undeniable also that Hull has been left behind in terms of broadband. As the sole provider in the area, the blame for that lands squarely at KC's door. Although I will admit that things might be a little better if Offcom weren't such a waste of space.
On a sidenote, maybe KC should have used the sponsorship money from a certain rival clubs stadium to instead provide that service to people or reduce their prices. Why spend such vast amounts on advertising when most people can't get the service being advertised, and for those that can, you have no competitors? | | | |
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| Quote FCBen="FCBen"It is undeniable also that Hull has been left behind in terms of broadband. As the sole provider in the area, the blame for that lands squarely at KC's door. Although I will admit that things might be a little better if Offcom weren't such a waste of space.'"
Yep, squarely at their door, unless you know, you ignore facts and stuff.  It does in fact land entirely away from "their door" as access to the network is regulated and under exactly the same conditions for all providers as the rest of the country via BT. Also, it is very much deniable that Hull has been "left behind" in terms of broadband, mainly because there are no facts to support that either given many in Hull and the surrounding villages can get up to 100mb if they are one of the lucky ones, and further my bet is that the percentage per 100 people that can is higher than many other areas in the UK.
Quote FCBen="Ofcom"According to the latest report from the independent telecommunications regulator Ofcom, KC’s internet service has performed better than the equivalent services offered by the country’s biggest communications providers.
The report revealed that these services typically provide download speeds of up to 24Mbps, but the actual speed customers receive depends on how far they live from the nearest telephone exchange.'"
OFCOM can't regulate KC into an unfair condition, by making it cheaper to provide internet in Hull than via the BT network, whereas I believe Virgin have exclusive access to their network(?).
Unfortunately the cost of plugging into our infrastructure is apparently making it too unappealing. Not helped the fact that London based ISP's like Sky don't actually seem to know where Hull is.
Incidently, I don't know if you have had a look at the complaints regarding Virgin? However many complain the service is at time irritating to say the least, as Virgin apply hourly fair use thresholds. Some as low as 1250mb per two hours apparently. Meaning that they ramped your speed down after that limit for 2 hours. Meaning downloading a HD movie takes a lot longer than it should. | | |
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HDM article [url=http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Best-worst-internet-speeds-Hull-East-Riding/story-24488645-detail/story.htmltoday.[/url You'll need plenty of bandwidth to cope with all the adverts.
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Quote Bal="Bal"Yep, squarely at their door, unless you know, you ignore facts and stuff.
It does in fact land entirely away from "their door" as access to the network is regulated and under exactly the same conditions for all providers as the rest of the country via BT.'"
If that's the case, why are we still stuck with no choice. Surely if it was a level playing field, at least one other provider would give it a try. I'll admit I don't have the facts regarding this side of things, they don't appear to be readily available. I find lots of rumour and heresay such as the size of wire KC use not being compatible etc, but no actual hard facts. And while you are happy to tell me I have my facts wrong, I note you stop short of correcting me. If I have it all wrong and KC are the saviours of broadband in Hull, I will accept that. If it doesn't land at KC's door, whos door does it land at?
Quote Bal="Bal"Also, it is very much deniable that Hull has been "left behind" in terms of broadband, mainly because [uthere are no facts[/u to support that either given many in Hull and the surrounding villages can get up to 100mb if they are one of the lucky ones, and further my bet is that the percentage per 100 people that can is higher than many other areas in the UK. '"
Quote Bal="FCBen"Again, netindex show Hull as 826 out of 954 for home broadband, and 316 of 321 for mobile broadband explorer.netindex.com/maps'"
If those figures don't show Hull, ranked about 30th in population in the UK, to be anything other than left behind, I don't know what does. There are very few in Hull that can get Lightstream. KC seem to be doing the surrounding villages and towns first. This leaves the ludicrous situation where the main population centre and businesses therein are left behind places like Beverley and Brough. I'm sorry, but if you live outside the main city, you shouldn't expect to be first line when a new technology arrives. Yes I know they suffer slow speeds, but that is the price of living in these places. You don't see EE introducing 4G+ in Hull where their network is shocking, you see it in London, the largest population centre. Lightstream should be in Hull first and then extended to rural areas.
Quote Bal="Bal"OFCOM can't regulate KC into an unfair condition, by making it cheaper to provide internet in Hull than via the BT network, whereas I believe Virgin have exclusive access to their network(?).'"
I'm not asking for KC to be treat unfairly, I'm asking for KC to be fair to it's customers. The HDM article today compares KC to "the vast majority of the Uk", and we are paying 60% more than we should be. And that's comparing 35GB to unlimited usage too. Virgin may have exclusive rights to their network, but how many places in the UK don't have access to an alternative provider. Not the same situation.
Quote Bal="Bal"Incidently, I don't know if you have had a look at the complaints regarding Virgin? However many complain the service is at time irritating to say the least, as Virgin apply hourly fair use thresholds. Some as low as 1250mb per two hours apparently. Meaning that they ramped your speed down after that limit for 2 hours. Meaning downloading a HD movie takes a lot longer than it should.'"
Quote Bal="Virgin Media"We've got great news for all customers on our broadband tiers of 30Mb and above. After listening to your feedback, we've decided to stop applying our traffic management policy to download speeds. So now you can download as much as you like without worrying about traffic management slowing you down.'"
Seems Virgin actually listen to their customer complaints.  |
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Quote Bal="Bal"Yep, squarely at their door, unless you know, you ignore facts and stuff.
It does in fact land entirely away from "their door" as access to the network is regulated and under exactly the same conditions for all providers as the rest of the country via BT.'"
If that's the case, why are we still stuck with no choice. Surely if it was a level playing field, at least one other provider would give it a try. I'll admit I don't have the facts regarding this side of things, they don't appear to be readily available. I find lots of rumour and heresay such as the size of wire KC use not being compatible etc, but no actual hard facts. And while you are happy to tell me I have my facts wrong, I note you stop short of correcting me. If I have it all wrong and KC are the saviours of broadband in Hull, I will accept that. If it doesn't land at KC's door, whos door does it land at?
Quote Bal="Bal"Also, it is very much deniable that Hull has been "left behind" in terms of broadband, mainly because [uthere are no facts[/u to support that either given many in Hull and the surrounding villages can get up to 100mb if they are one of the lucky ones, and further my bet is that the percentage per 100 people that can is higher than many other areas in the UK. '"
Quote Bal="FCBen"Again, netindex show Hull as 826 out of 954 for home broadband, and 316 of 321 for mobile broadband explorer.netindex.com/maps'"
If those figures don't show Hull, ranked about 30th in population in the UK, to be anything other than left behind, I don't know what does. There are very few in Hull that can get Lightstream. KC seem to be doing the surrounding villages and towns first. This leaves the ludicrous situation where the main population centre and businesses therein are left behind places like Beverley and Brough. I'm sorry, but if you live outside the main city, you shouldn't expect to be first line when a new technology arrives. Yes I know they suffer slow speeds, but that is the price of living in these places. You don't see EE introducing 4G+ in Hull where their network is shocking, you see it in London, the largest population centre. Lightstream should be in Hull first and then extended to rural areas.
Quote Bal="Bal"OFCOM can't regulate KC into an unfair condition, by making it cheaper to provide internet in Hull than via the BT network, whereas I believe Virgin have exclusive access to their network(?).'"
I'm not asking for KC to be treat unfairly, I'm asking for KC to be fair to it's customers. The HDM article today compares KC to "the vast majority of the Uk", and we are paying 60% more than we should be. And that's comparing 35GB to unlimited usage too. Virgin may have exclusive rights to their network, but how many places in the UK don't have access to an alternative provider. Not the same situation.
Quote Bal="Bal"Incidently, I don't know if you have had a look at the complaints regarding Virgin? However many complain the service is at time irritating to say the least, as Virgin apply hourly fair use thresholds. Some as low as 1250mb per two hours apparently. Meaning that they ramped your speed down after that limit for 2 hours. Meaning downloading a HD movie takes a lot longer than it should.'"
Quote Bal="Virgin Media"We've got great news for all customers on our broadband tiers of 30Mb and above. After listening to your feedback, we've decided to stop applying our traffic management policy to download speeds. So now you can download as much as you like without worrying about traffic management slowing you down.'"
Seems Virgin actually listen to their customer complaints. | |
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Ah, good old blame culture. Surely somebody is too blame?!
KC are a business FCBen, they don't owe you anything, and don't ultimately care about what your thoughts of what is fair providing they have a solid customer base. They are a public listed company operating in an efficient market. They've deemed that's what they can charge, and looking at their share price over the last few years, it looks like their right. The Telegraph recently tipped KCOM as a hot investment choice.
As I said earlier, I fully support measures to introduce competition in Hull for internet. It just shouldn't be done by putting unfair measures on a local business. Given the importance of being connected these days to local business, perhaps subsidies to help ISPs with the set up costs are in order. By the way, I gather the reason it is unappealing for ISPs is the costs are exactly the same as BT for set up but for a much smaller market.
Good to see Virgin have resolved their throttling issues.
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| Nice move, blame it on the blame culture. | | |
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Another article in the mail today, this time about mobile coverage and internet speeds.
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| Quote Cityfibre="Cityfibre"National framework agreement will see first UK deployments of dark fibre connectivity to mobile masts improving network performance and reducing cost
13 November 2014 - Leading fibre optic infrastructure provider CityFibre has signed a long-term national framework agreement with mobile network operators EE and Three UK, along with their infrastructure joint venture, Mobile Broadband Network Limited (MBNL).
The deal will see CityFibre deploy the UK’s first dark fibre backhaul connections to mobile masts across both operators’ networks, improving network performance capabilities as well as offering long term cost efficiency. It also marks the expansion of critically needed diversity in the mobile operators’ supply chains.
Dark fibre is fibre cabling that is already in the ground, but has not yet been connected to carry traffic. Lighting up dark fibre effectively supplies operators with their own fibre infrastructure, a future-proofed platform offering near limitless capacity for the same fixed cost. This is an invaluable asset in the face of operators’ growing bandwidth requirements and increasing backhaul traffic to and from cell sites driven by booming data demand and the proliferation of connected devices.
[uThe first project of the framework is already underway in Kingston-upon-Hull, where CityFibre is in the process of overhauling MBNL’s network, providing both EE and Three with the ability to deploy high speed access to their masts, improving the customer experience in the area[/u. This work also presents an opportunity for EE and Three to deploy advanced network technology features and trial cutting edge technologies. CityFibre, EE, Three UK and MBNL are already examining how the dark fibre solution could be rolled out to further towns and cities in the UK under the national framework agreement.
CityFibre’s project for the mobile sites in Hull is the first step in an anticipated larger build-out following CityFibre’s “Well-Planned City” model, under which the Company’s shared fibre infrastructure is also available for use by service providers covering multiple market segments.'"
This looks fantastic, maybe we will be getting some competition in Hull at last. Seems to have affected KC's share price. Definately one to watch. | | |
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| Quote FCBen="FCBen"This looks fantastic, maybe we will be getting some competition in Hull at last. Seems to have affected KC's share price. Definately one to watch.
'"
How has it effected the share price? Whole market was at a 6 week low a few days ago due to Ebola crisis among other things, now returning to previous resistance levels and KCOM is tracking along nicely with that. Its a telecommunication share, one of the most boring equity categories out there, you'd pretty much a disaster to move it out of a trading range.
Good to see some competition for fibre access in Hull. Will be interesting to see what tariffs and so forth can be offered, and how KC react to that. Hopefully month price reductions and fair use limit increases. | | |
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| Quote FCBen="FCBen"This looks fantastic, maybe we will be getting some competition in Hull at last. Seems to have affected KC's share price. Definately one to watch.
'"
Plenty of competition with the wireless providers in and around Hull. | | | |
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| Quote hullbg="hullbg"Plenty of competition with the wireless providers in and around Hull.'"
As I said earlier in the thread, none of the wireless providers cover me in West Hull, except Pure. And they can't install till next year.
I'm currently tethering with a Giffgaff (O2) mobile phone. It's painfully slow in the evening, and I only have 3GB of usage, but at least I am being charged accordingly. I'm hoping this fibre supply to the masts will improve three and EE's service, and that in turn will be competition for KC. That can only be a good thing for consumers in Hull. If and when their prices are more realistic, I may consider going back to KC. | | | |
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'"
It does in fact land entirely away from "their door" as access to the network is regulated and under exactly the same conditions for all providers as the rest of the country via BT. Also, it is very much deniable that Hull has been "left behind" in terms of broadband, mainly because there are no facts to support that either given many in Hull and the surrounding villages can get up to 100mb if they are one of the lucky ones, and further my bet is that the percentage per 100 people that can is higher than many other areas in the UK. 
