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| Quote Doc Brown="Doc Brown"Agreed. Look at the hype surrounding HTW. If he has anything other than a sensational debut there will be a lot of disappointment due to all the talk about him. Not fair on the lad.'"
How has he played this season for the 19's? Not really heard much about his progress
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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"I fully believe there are some good players who fall through the cracks for the reasons you state. What I struggle to buy into, however, is that this is the best area in the country for rugby league talent, it's well known across the country, yet all these scouts and coaches who know it aren't signing any of them up.
Even in the recent years of youth being stifled at Hull, we've seen us bring a batch of Fev lads (the Briscoe's), someone from the Leeds area (Lineham), and Crooks from Cas through our academy. If the local talent pool is so good, why isn't this kind of thing reflected by some Hull kids coming through at Leeds/Cas/Wakey etc?
I'm not saying there aren't talented kids here, or that we shouldn't be doing better with them, I just think 'best in the country' is overdoing it and symptomatic of how much we hype up young kids and place too much pressure and expectation on them. It's possibly as harmful as the coaching. Tommy Lee and Craig Hall were internationals in waiting, Anthony Thackray and Reece Lyne were going to take SL by storm, whilst Liam Kent was going to be a first team regular for years, the list goes on a long way.
We're definitely doing the right thing in aiming to get this aspect of the club right, I just think that with this as much as anything we need to address that same problem of managing expectation. Again, Pearson didn't really help with his bullishness about how 'special' the group of players at 16s level are/were, but it's not healthy for us fans to keep building things up to unrealistic levels as we don't then deal with it when we fail to reach them.'"
I was only going on what scouts have said from further afield, there is 2 brothers 1 at wire 1s at fax, they have said the same when they've been at our lads game, our 14s & wests are into their 1st season in the top yorkshire league & are running away with it, where as East Leeds dominated it till we joined, & them lads are at Leeds academy & Leeds scouts are well impressed with ours.
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| Quote Chris71="Chris71"Some good points raised in this thread and good discussion.
For me Peter Gentle seemed to be moving us in the right direction in regards the whole set up and philosophy of the club from Juniors through to Seniors. If I remember correctly it was all part of a 5 year plan which was unable to see out. Under Gentle we had even started loaning players out to gain greater experience than at academy level and rather than us bringing loans in or swapping and changing 1st team player positions we used players in our system in the relevant positions.
So we are now faced with a Coaching set up with little experience at this level. This for me is the killer for us and will only see us fall further behind the other clubs. What we needed and still need is a Head Coach who is experienced at developing young talent and is able to impart this knowledge onto the coaches within the club or bring in suitable persons in the current coaches are not up to the task. The Head Coach must also be experienced at 1st team level and take on the full responsibility of the 1st team. This I believe was met by PG's credentials and had we been patient and sacked off McRae who is the one who brokered all deals and financials then I believe we would have been very close to achieving the long term goal set out.
How we can be expected to move forward with a Coach who is very green at this level and no real experience at senior level who everyone including himself admits is learning as he goes along and this not be a detriment to the club at the same time is beyond me.
The problem with Aussie Coaches is that they do not usually stay in the British game long enough to see out such tasks but in PG he seemed very determined to see out the task.
I think the likes of Leeds, Wigan, Huddersfield, St's & Warrington are all benefiting from the structures put in place by the likes of Smith, Brown, Maquire, D. Anderson, McClennan. Wane, Anderson, McDermott are benefitting by the ground work already done and success being brought in plus they have served their apprenticeships and have the experience to carry on the development of their respective clubs and continue to move them forward.
I would even look at the possibility of sending Radford &/or Last over to Australia for a season long work experience to achieve the success we all strive for at Hull FC.
Radford may well prove at some point to be a good coach but he is currently far too inexperienced to under take the role at Hull and he should of been honest with himself and pride to one side and say its comes too soon and said NO.'"
Excellent post Chris.
I like the suggestion you have on sending Radders and/or Last out to Oz for a year to get some experience out there. How is Mcnamara getting on out there?
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| Quote Doc Brown="Doc Brown"Agreed. Look at the hype surrounding HTW. If he has anything other than a sensational debut there will be a lot of disappointment due to all the talk about him. Not fair on the lad.'"
Exactly. It's bordering on him needing to be the next Darren Lockyer (and instantly) to live up to his billing. He's 17 and there were calls for him to be in the team to try and solve our halfback situation by May.
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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"Exactly. It's bordering on him needing to be the next Darren Lockyer (and instantly) to live up to his billing. He's 17 and there were calls for him to be in the team to try and solve our halfback situation by May.'"
I'm keen to see him in action and may have even been one of the ones calling for his inclusion. Not as a permanent player. I think I maybe suggested trying him out against London for a bit of a run out.
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| Quote easthull fc fan="easthull fc fan"I was only going on what scouts have said from further afield, there is 2 brothers 1 at wire 1s at fax, they have said the same when they've been at our lads game, our 14s & wests are into their 1st season in the top yorkshire league & are running away with it, where as East Leeds dominated it till we joined, & them lads are at Leeds academy & Leeds scouts are well impressed with ours.'"
But being honest, would you expect them to tell you they're rhubarb? I'm not saying they are, but they're bound to be polite to you aren't they? And a few lads at one age group impressing a bit doesn't make our area the best hotbed of RL talent in the country. If it truly was and there were many top talents there to be developed, the law of averages says that we would be seeing Hull lads getting snapped up by other clubs and coming through their academies in greater numbers. They can't all just be being ruined or going to waste at the 2 Hull clubs.
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| Quote Wilde 3="Wilde 3"How has he played this season for the 19's? Not really heard much about his progress'"
Don't follow the u19s much so someone else can provide a better answer than me. Skimming through the reports on the official website it sounds like he creates a lot of tries for us and has a good kicking game.
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| Quote ccs="ccs"Quality HB's make the difference when the pack takes control.
A good pack with poor HB's doesn't have the same success.'"
We don't have either quality half backs or a good pack.
Add that to our excuse of a coach and that's why we are 3rd bottom o the league
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| There is a lot of younger lads in the 19s tbf, Ross Osborne has only just turned 17.
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| Quote Doc Brown="Doc Brown"I'm keen to see him in action and may have even been one of the ones calling for his inclusion. Not as a permanent player. I think I maybe suggested trying him out against London for a bit of a run out.'"
Would that be good for him at this stage though? As you say, if he's not absolutely brilliant from the off a lot will be disappointed, and it might actually hamper his development. I know a lot was said about 'it's only London', but all that does it make it worse, because people were writing London off so much as to make it seem like it should be easier for him, which just adds to the pressure/expectation for him to deliver. It might be different if he would be coming into a decent, organised side that would look after him, but coming into this rabble with the fanbase desperately hoping for him to provide the direction and organisation that we need is a huge ask.
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| Quote carl_spackler="carl_spackler"Would that be good for him at this stage though? As you say, if he's not absolutely brilliant from the off a lot will be disappointed, and it might actually hamper his development. I know a lot was said about 'it's only London', but all that does it make it worse, because people were writing London off so much as to make it seem like it should be easier for him, which just adds to the pressure/expectation for him to deliver. It might be different if he would be coming into a decent, organised side that would look after him, but coming into this rabble with the fanbase desperately hoping for him to provide the direction and organisation that we need is a huge ask.'"
Fair point.
Looking at the 19 man squad for tomorrow you certainly wouldn't want him coming into that. Only nine of the 19 were regular FC players last year and two of them (Shaul and Lineham) are still fairly new to the game. The rest are either off-season signings or academy products. Add in the constant shuffling of the team week in week out and we don't seem to have any cohesion. Ideally he needs to be tried when we can offer a settled side.
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| Quote Doc Brown="Doc Brown"Excellent post Chris.
I like the suggestion you have on sending Radders and/or Last out to Oz for a year to get some experience out there. How is Mcnamara getting on out there?'"
Well for me if you want to make the highest quality and best tasting cake you have to use the finest ingredients and know how to use them etc.
You can't make the best by using an inferior ingredient for example using turd in place of chocolate as it will ruin all the quality ingredients you use. Although the cake may look the same it will still taste of turd no matter what you do if you still keep using turd.
Also even if you use the highest quality ingredients its no good if the person you ask to bake doesn't use the right amounts or correct formula as the same thing will happen.
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